I couple of writer buddies and I were discussing some old fantasy novels we had liked when we were teens. I mentioned that I remember liking them but that I had always wished they were a little more realistic. Another mentioned that he still liked them. The third said that he had re-read them as an adult and they were just plain bad.
This got me to thinking about books that are supposedly bad. Yes, to our adult minds such books may indeed be bad. Yet does that qualify them as a bad book if in the taste of teens they are really good? Many of us might argue that yes they are bad, but publishing is a business -- if teens will spend money on books that we adults will sniff at, well that still makes them money-makers.
I wish agents would consider this more often when it comes to certain types of fantasy, such as traditional high fantasy, where almost all agents and publishers seem burnt out on anything that resembles Tolkien or Dungeons & Dragons in any way. So what if you think all such work is derivative? If teens and old-timer gaming fans will shell out the bucks for such books, you should be picking them up. One person's 'bad' is another person's favorite type of book.
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Midnight Died Tonight
4 minutes ago
'Bad' is a subjective term when applied to the arts. I don't like to read romances, but millions do. Those same millions will read a Tom Holt and wonder where the humour is, or Terry Pratchett.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the problem is that publishing is not just a business, but has become a fashion business. Remember all the Harry Potter clones a few years ago?
Martin, I didn't see any Harry Potter clones, but I wasn't paying attention. I don't really care for YA, so Harry is about the only YA that I have read other than Hunger Games.
ReplyDeleteoooh ted! did you like the hunger gmaes?!?!? anyway, i have trouble calling any book bad- not my thing, sure- but bad??? i don't think i have that much guts!
ReplyDeletenb had a great post once about all these well selling books that a lot of aspiring authors label as "bad." (this is a loose paraphrase filtered through my brain) he said that all these books that sell well are doing SOMETHING right! they may not be our favorite- or even doing EVERYTHING "right"- but we ought to think twice before we call them bad. because they've obviously proven themselves in the marketplace. martin's thought about trends is fascinating!
Victoria, I liked the Hunger Games for the most part, but I thought the author only did a so-so job with the writing. I feel a great writer would have taken that concept and hit a grand-slam. I felt little connection or sympathy for the main character, who seemed a bit flat. I also got bored with the endless emphasis on clothing.
ReplyDeleteTed, I think you have a great point. I think about the Clan of the Cave Bear series that I LOVED when I was in my early 20s and now seems pretty silly. I even read The Shining (at one time my favorite book ever) with my daughter and it just isn't how I remembered it...
ReplyDeleteMy opinion on the matter is we mature and expect more--especially those of us who are learning the craft of writing--we gain a much more critical eye.
My opinion on Hunger Games is perhaps it could have used a few rounds of editing, but I thought she was BRILLIANT with characterization and plot. I particularly liked Peeta's trajectory--seemed very realistic given the situation, and a route I don't think most YA authors know enough psychology to have written. I also adored though, how she managed to make Katniss both unlikable and sympathetic--that is a tricky path.
Fair enough, Hart. I know that the things that bothered me about the story will not bother everyone. I really didn't like Peeta's arc much, myself.
ReplyDeletei think your evaluations are fair. i had difficulty with the writing style at the beginning of the first book, but i often do when reading a new author's voice... unless it's one that i'm head over heels for. i thought peeta was a little too perfect... but in many ways he reminded me of my sweet hubby.
ReplyDeleteat first i thought katniss was flat too. but then it occured to me that she was largely ambivalent based on the horrors she had experienced. i find the increasing level of ambivalence amongst teenagers intriguing and disturbing. it seems like they tend to turn off instead of getting angry... so- i guess katniss seemed relevant to the modern teen to me. i know i didn't write that quite right, but you know what i mean, right? anyway... sorry for hijacking your comment and making them about the hunger games!!! :D
Not at all, Victoria. I like discussion. I can see the point about Katniss perhaps reflecting on today's teens, but I prefer to connect in some way with a protagonist, and all I kept doing with her was rooting against her for the most part.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth I don't know for certain that I would still like them. I haven't read them in years, but the memories are still fond.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I don't want to read them again for fear of ruining my rose tinted recollections. I know they wouldn't stand up to this GRRM I'm reading now.
And just to chime in on TGH, Katniss felt a little apathetic to me too, but it worked for me, considering the circumstances. I thought the first book was incredible, though I would agree with Ted that it wasn't the most poetic prose. The pacing, stakes, and characterization made up for it though.
ReplyDeleteThe second book was a little more difficult to suspend my disbelief for, and the third lost me, IMHO.
Glad to know you've read one YA novel, Ted! Besides mine that is.
I think I went from kid's books straight to adult books. Terry Brooks is still good, although in reading it now I realize it's been copied a million times and not longer seems fresh.
ReplyDeleteAlex, it is precisely The Sword of Shannara that has led me to believe the way I do recently. I read it again, and yes I can now see how derivative it is of Tolkien, but I still really like it. It has made me realize that some of us don't really care about originality as long as we are truly passionate about something, as I am about Tolkienesque stories. I want more of them, and I would like better and more realistic ones than Shannara, but if that is all they will give me, I can still enjoy them. McKiernan's Iron Tower trilogy was as derivative as they come, yet I love those books!
ReplyDeleteLike all things, I think the acceptance by an agent and or editor is a very subjective thing. It could well be that high fantasy may bring in the bucks, but an agent or editor must fall in love with it in order to be an advocate for it.
ReplyDeleteI guess the key is to keep shooting for your goal, no matter what :)
Great blog, Ted!
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Thanks, Dawn, but isn't it a sad thing if there is a huge market for something but no agents or publishers who care to satisfy the needs of that market? Wizards of the Coast is the only publisher who seems to want to release high fantasy, but they only do campy. What about those of us who want realism in our high fantasy?
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